Post Marathon Training Question

After running 3 marathons in the last year, I'm planning on concentrating my training on shorter stuff, 5 and 10k's etc. For my Tokyo Marathon training I did a long run of 30-35k once a week and one or two medium runs of 22-24k a week. A portion, about 14-16k, of these medium runs was at marathon pace, 4:25-4:30 per k. I think this was good training and likely is what enabled me to get PB's in 5k, 10k, half and marathon since the end of January. Maybe I could have had a better marathon time without the other PB's but that's another question. So now with the decreased mileage I'm thinking about having the medium, marathon paced run as my weekly long run. I think the duration (1:40-1:45) is sufficient for a long run. My question is this: do I need the slow paced run that marathon training is usually associated with? Will I be missing something physiologically if all or most of my runs are at marathon pace or better? Do I need to be in the "fat burning" zone to train for shorter races? (If you didn't notice, he preceding three questions are basically all the same). Looking forward to the input of the collective wisdom of Namban Rengo.

AZ

Tokyo Marathon...it's not about the rain...

This was a battle between man, pain, and rain.

Motozo prevailed with a 1 minute personal best (PB) at the first annual Tokyo marathon.


Preparation was key...lots of pasta meals to the point of overload..nearly every meal was rice or pasta the final week...no alcohol for the last week and no caffeine for the last 4 days. A nice sleep-in on Saturday morning and off to bed again at 9 PM on Saturday before the race. The taper was enjoyable and my legs healed up nicely following months of pavement pounding. After a peak of 108K 3 weeks prior to the race, I reduced drastically to 64K 2 weeks before and 56K the final week with mainly marathon pace 5K and 10K runs to maintain fitness levels.


read the gory details here: http://davidmotozo.blogspot.com/

Ponchos Will Be Provided

In the runner's kit (swag bag) there's a white sheet titled "Instructions for Tokyo Marathon Runners," which states that at the bag check area ponchos will be provided for the runners to keep warm. It seems only natural and logical. However, to hedge your bets you might want to have a cheap poncho or jacket ready that you can quickly toss in to your bag after seeing if they are giving them out. I bought one today, with snaps down the front, making it easy to discard. Price: 100 yen. Check out your neighborhood 100 yen store.

Beginners luck

Looks like the almost uninterrupted clear blue skys of the last two months will take a turn for the worst for the 1st Tokyo Marathon this Sunday.

Keeping warm at the start

In my blog I made a passing comment (among a number of passing comments) wondering what to wear at the start line after handing in our bags. It drew a few comments so I thought it is probably something we might want to discuss here.

Unsettled weather is forecast so it may be cool or even cool and wet. My original comment was mainly based on the fact that I was wondering how the organizers are going to view the discarding of plastic ponchos or garbage bags (suggestions by Brett & Gordon on my blog) and old clothes (suggestion by Clairie & Tesso). There is no reference to it in the information pack, so I guess by default, all suggestions are fair game.

Since we do not have any "Vinnies" (St. Vincent de paul opportunity shops) I have already identified one old jacket that my wife says can be sacrificed to the Running Gods. The lightweight ponchos etc are also an atractive option, but I must admit, either way I am not totally comfortable with the idea of leaving all that gomi strewn around the streets, not just because it is gomi, but it must cause havoc for the people running behind.

I was thinking it would be cool (not necessarily for this race) if a charity could be mobilized to organize an army of volunteers to collect clothes at the start along with a 1000-yen donation (much in the vein of Taro's Run for Africa concept). I am sure these clothes could be put to use in poverty- or disaster-stricken places.

What do you all think?

A Map of Tokyo Running Resources

This is not actually about Tokyo Marathon, but it is about Tokyo. Can you see the little map I added to the side bar? You can zoom and scroll around with it there, but if you click on the link "Tokyo Running Resources" it opens another page to the full site. Let me know if there is anything you'd like added. I can also upload photos for a location, so feel free to send them along as well.

While I was at it I added a countdown to Tokyo Marathon...just six days to go...

Pre-race Carbo Loading

There is a good and reasonably priced Chinese restaurant called Benitora in LaQua across the street from Tokyo Dome and they will take a booking for up to about 15 people for our dinner Friday night after picking up our race numbers. Judging from the response to my earlier blog, that should be plenty of space.

http://www.laqua.jp/rest/detail_rest.jsp?restaurantID=RE20030228102

Please respond here (with your name), and/or reply to my message to the email list as soon as possible if you intend to join. There are a other good restaurants nearby also, so if we do go over the 15 person limit we should be able to work something out.

Date: Friday 16th
Time: 8:30pm

( If people are interested in Onsen relaxation at LaQua after that, it is just upstairs from the restaurant so you can just go after dinner. No bookings are necessary. Baths include outdoor onsen, cold baths, sauna etc. Price is about 2500yen. )

Ryan

Expected Times

...and here it is in order of time:

NAME	TIME
Brett	2:29:00
Greg	2:42:30
Yoshida K	2:45
Martin V	3:00
Steve	3:00
Jay	3:05
Mika T	3:05:35
Chris	3:08
David	3:08
Anthony	3:10
Bob	3:10
Colin	3:10
Ingo	3:10
Stuart	3:10
Terry	3:10
Adam B	3:10:00
Adam Y	3:15
Rie	3:15
Matthias	3:20
Chika	3:25
Okazaki K	3:25
Akira	3:30
Carol	3:30
Gareth	3:30
Gary E	3:30
Jason	3:30
Keren	3:30
Paddy	3:30
Shiba	3:30
Peter A	3:30:00
Mika K	3:34
Tom	3:35
Gary C	3:40
Mary	3:40
Jaynie	3:45
Katakura	3:45
Frank	4:00
Grainne	4:00
Phil	4:00
Renald	4:00
Sally	4:00
Yuka	4:00
Chiba	4:15
Dayan	4:15
Luke	5:00
Yumiko	Finish!
Gordon
Paul
Philippe
Taeko
Taro
Yasuko

The Tokyo List

Gareth says:

I have here a list of people who will run Tokyo marathon. With times. For your information, entertainment and speculation. Speaking of which, a fair few of these projections look a bit soft to me. Any comments? (I know the names and times are a bit jammed together, but that's the software, not me.)

I HAVE AMENDED THIS. For some reason, the first posting dropped everybody after Matthias. I hope it now covers everyone.

Adam B 3:10
Adam Y 3:15
Akira 3:30
Anthony 3:10
Bob 3:10
Brett 2:29
Carol 3:30
Chiba 4:15
Chika 3:25
Chris 3:08
Colin 3:10
David 3:08
Dayan 4:15
Frank 4:00
Gareth 3:30
Gary C 3:40
Gary E 3:30
Gordon
Grainne 4:00
Greg 2:42:30
Ingo 3:10
Jason 3:30
Jay 3:05
Jaynie 3:45
Katakura 3:45
Keren 3:30
Luke 5:00
Mary 3:40
Martin V 3:00
Matthias 3:20
Mika K 3:34
Mika T 3:05:35
Okazaki K
Paddy 3:25
Paul
Peter A 3:30
Phil 4:00
Philippe
Renald 4:00
Rie
Sally 4:00
Shiba 3:30
Steve 3:00
Stuart 3:10
Taeko
Taro
Terry 3:10
Tom 3:35
Yasuko
Yoshida K 2:45
Yuka 4:00
Yumiko Finish!

Why I'm feeling upbeat about Tokyo Marathon

I do this heart rate test procedure to track my fitness. I run from my home in Meguro to Komazawa Park, coming into the park at the bottom of the course, and run one lap -- all this at moderate warm up pace. Then on the second lap I accelerate up the hill and get my heart rate up to 149 bpm, that's 80% of my maximum heart rate. By the start of the third lap I should be close to 149 and then I do my best to hold it at 149 for the whole lap. It can drift up and down slightly with the hills, but I always manage to average 149 for the lap. As a measure of fitness, I look at what pace I ran the lap in. This chart shows my records for each time I ran the test since last summer. There are a few gaps there where I didn't do the test, during the summer idle and after Ohtawara. The most interesting thing is that just before Ohtawara, the test gave me a pace of a bit less than 4:15/km. I subsequently ran 3:04 at Ohtawara.

Over the past four weeks I have finally been able to get some niggling injuries under control and ran some very good quality workouts, especially the long hard aerobic workouts in Yoyogi Park on Wednesdays, mostly with Adam. I clocked up 450 km in January; not huge mileage, but solid, and a high proportion of it of good quality. You can see the effect of this period of training on my aerobic system as my pace for the test lap has fallen from 4:20/km at the start of January to just over 4:00/km this week.

What will all this mean for Tokyo? Well, I do feel that I am missing a few long runs due to the injuries hampering me through December, and the interference of the Shibuya Ekiden and Shinjuku Half, so perhaps my endurance won't be as good as it should be. But on the other hand, running at 4:15/km (3-hour marathon pace) should not present any problems for at least 20 to 25 km. After that it is anybody's guess. But I do appear to be in better shape than I was at Ohtawara soI will be a little disappointed if I don't break three hours on February 18.

But regardless of anything, it is really going to be such a buzz just being part of the excitement on the day. Running a good time will be a bonus, but it does now at least seem possible.

Tale of the Taper

During my first post-Ome run yesterday, which delivered excruciating pain to my quads with every step, I started contemplating The Taper. I came up with more questions than answers. Obviously, the short answer is that it's a gradual reduction in training distance and intensity to allow your muscles to rest and recover for the intense punishment of a marathon. However, what's most effective way to taper? Should you eliminate all runs, of say, more than 10K? Is it OK to do a 2o or 25k run at an easy pace during your taper? How about tempo runs and intervals? How hard should you tax your body? Can you taper too much? I'm always afraid of losing my intensity during a taper. What do the experts think?

Carbs during race

I have recently read four articles that talk about the importance of taking in carbohydrates during a marathon. It seems like it is not just important, it is a major factor determining whether you have a good or poor race (that is, how you feel the last hour of the race.
The carbs that you have loaded in the previous days and on the race morning are expended after 90 minutes of running. So you have to take in more. As well as more liquid. Actually, you can't take in as much carbs as you are burning (as much as 200g per hour) but you should try to take in 30-60g per hour. Unfortunately, this is as much as your stomach can handle. The thing is, some people can handle 30 and some people can handle 60, so you really should experiment before the race. Also, practice helps you to be able to handle more.
One Weider Energy gel has 45g of carbs. One Fightman Energy gel has 46g. I tried carrying a Weider gel last sunday on my long run and drank it between 20 and 25k. It worked fine (thanks for the suggestion, Mika). Not particularly troublesome to carry and easy to drink. Also they have a cap so you can drink a bit at a time. Carbo Shotz (available at Art Sports) have 29.8g. They are easier to carry (thin so you can stick them in your shorts) but harder to drink (thick and gooey and no cap, you should drink water from an aid station together or just after...your stomach cannot handle 30g of carbs all at once).
I will probably carry one Energy gel and two carbo shotz. (I will also carry some candy (glucose...high glycemic index for fast absorption by the body) although chocolate will be available at some aid stations, this was written in Courir, which I will also eat.)
The other way to take in carbs is via a sports drink. Ideally you want about 25g per 500ml, but most Japanese drinks have much less. Pocari Sweat has 6.7, I think it is. Of course, you are getting liquid as well. So not much carbs, but better than water. Again, you should experiment with your drink before the race.
Which brings us to the important point of...what will be the sports drink at the Tokyo Marathon? Does anyone know? I mentioned Pocari Sweat because Otsuka Seiyaku is one of the marathon sponsors, so I am guessing that PS will be the drink at the aid stations. I hope it is. It is drinkable and has the carbs and has some minerals, which is also good.
In summary, you should drink small amounts frequently after the race starts, and take in carbs, as much as you can handle, after 90 minutes. Oh, and eat a high carb breakfast: cereal or oatmeal or bagel or rice or guess what? instant noodles (low glycemic index for longer absorption by the body) and sports drink. Some people say a banana is also good, some say it is not so easily digested. I will stick with oatmeal. Again, you should experiment before the race.
Bob

a wise selection

What kind of shoes will you choose for Tokyo Marathon?
Of course I know that a decision of your shoes for the race depends on your skill and your body condition.

Well, let me change a style of my question.
If you find a problem of your shoes in last minutes, two weeks before a marathon race, what would you solve that problem?
Are you going to change the shoes to another new one?
I'm looking forward to participating in Tokyo marathon as well as elite runners.
My level of running is indifferent, no, low at the moment, therefore I tried to run a lot last two months.

As one of my strategy, I changed a shoes last months, but unfortunately for me, the new shoes (a sole is quite flat type, which I've never used) doesn't work for me.
The new shoes caused a terrible blister, knee pain and some serious cramps.
Do you think this problem is from my sudden intense workout of last two months?
Unfortunately my former (favorite) shoes are worn-out.

If you have a problem like me, what would you do last two weeks for the marathon?

Chiba

Ome Marathon

I ran the Ome Marathon yesterday (Feb. 4). For me it was to be a tune-up for the Tokyo Marathon and a means of boosting my confidence. I had a great time and my confidence has been properly inflated. I recommend this "classic" Japan race to everyone. Honestly, it was one of the best race experiences I have ever had.

People who've run the Okutama ekiden will know the course well. Just combine most of the eiken legs together omit all the sash passing and you’ve got the Ome Marathon. So if the weather is nice (and yesterday it was phenomenal), the scenery is beautiful.

Best of all was the support of crowds and volunteers along the race course. Every time I looked up there was a water stop or some one passing out sweets, banana slices or lemon wedges. Young and old heartily cheered on the runners and made the thought stopping or even slowing down impossible. Once, while passing a group of taiko drummers, I was able to "high-five" about ten percussionists of all shapes sizes and ages as I ran past their line.

At about 24K, when my spirits were sagging a little, a rumbling beckoned me. It started in low and began to grow. By the time I reached the thundering taiko rhythm, I was enveloped and buoyed by the electric energy of the drummers. For about 50 meters or so, I felt like I was running springs. What a mood lifter.

I will run this race again. I recommend you all try it.

Pre-race (morning) schedule

I am interested in knowing what others are going to do in the hours before the race.
My schedule will be:
4:00: Get up.
4:15: Eat medium bowl of oatmeal. Drink some Pokari Sweat (carbs). (No tea or coffee - diuretics).
Until 5:15: Read the paper, maybe take a walk outside.
5:15: Eat a piece of toast with jam, drink some more PS, drink a carbo gel (Weider Energy or Carbo Shotz. Have not tried the Carbo Shotz yet, will try one tomorrow to see how it sits in my stomach).
5:30: Shave and shower (to be Fully Awake).
6:00: Go to the bathroom, make final check of stuff to bring (including every possible piece of wear I might wear for the race).
6:35: Leave home.
7:30: Get to arranged meeting place.

As you can see, I will not eat much and will also not drink much. I like an empty stomach when I run and I definitely do not want to have to pee while I am running, which if I drink 2 or even 3 hours before I will have to. I will drink and eat more carbs during the race.
BoB

NEWS

We are 5 Volunteer for Tokyo Marathon 18th.

Yoshiko,Taizo,Rob,Robin and Shoji

We wear staff jumper.

Shoji

Connected

Thank you Steve for making the process simple for me.

Tokyo Times

Here’s a topic that’s perfect for this forum, not least of all because a lot of the people who could be, should be (why aren’t you?) reading this are thinking about it: What will I run at Tokyo? Hoping to unleash a flood of discussion, here’s my take.

My training for Tokyo opened with a determination to run below my 3:11 PB. Until the beginning of this year, I would have said I was edging towards that. A great end of year 30k in Osaka, a better 35k on the first Sunday of January; Wednesday night speed plus distance workouts that exceeded expectations; comfortable tempo runs; consistently rising mileage. Everything was pointing in the right direction and looking good.

But on January 14, I got the unwanted birthday present of the Sunday run from hell. I plodded a lonely course through Yoyogi, watching the pack run away from me, dwindle and disappear, leaving me to run at a pace below that of my Saturday slow (recovery pace) runs. Nothing else I could do! Wednesdays were the same, as both speed and distance slipped away. There was no apparent rhyme or reason for this abrupt and then persistent decline. No pain, no fatigue, no trouble sleeping; and I was sleeping long enough, seven hours a night. I eased off mileage to see if that helped, but it made no apparent difference. Racing a slow leg at Shibuya ekiden only confirmed what I already knew: Bye bye 3:11.

So, here we are. Seventeen days out. I did 98 plus change at Shinjuku half. Way too slow for a 3:11 full marathon. For the moment I’m hoping I’ve settled at this level, that the deterioration will not go on, and that I will manage to finish Tokyo under 3:30. Let us see what we shall see.

Gareth

Pre-race Carbo-loading Party

Barbarians,

There are some 50 Namban runners doing Tokyo Marathon. Most of us will go to Tokyo Dome to pick up our numbers the day before.** LaQua a lovely onsen spa open 24hrs just across the street. Our moons are aligned.

I suggest we make the most of this opportunity and gorge ourselves on a carbo loading lunch somewhere nearby after collecting our numbers in the morning, and then (for those who wish) go have a relaxing onsen in LaQua to loosen the mussels before this monumental race.

Provided that we get enough people together, I will look into a restaurant. The LaQua onsen itself does not require any advance booking.

Here is one possibility for restaurant:
http://www.americanhouse.co.jp/mangia/laqua.html
but they don't take bookings for weekends, so this would be tricky for Saturday. Any other suggestions?

Phil

** You can actually get your numbers on the Friday night before 8pm too - if more people want to do this after work on Friday night rather than Saturday, we can do that too. I suspect it may be less crowded then also, but it could be difficult for some nambanners.

Spectator positioning

I expect there will be a lot of family and friends out and about on the course cheering Nambanners on.  Just thought I would let you know that my wife and kids plan to watch from Hibiya Park.  There are a number of places like this where spectators should be able see the runners go past twice, such as anywhere along the leg from Hibiya to Shinagawa, or Ginza to Asakusa.  In fact you could quite easily watch your favourite runner go past the palace, then walk slowly over to Ginza and watch them twice again.  My wife has the kids though, so will probably just stay around Hibiya park where they can play.  If anyone else wants to join, just let me know. 

Phil

test

you can also post by emailing to...  -  (see settings/email)

A great inititiative

My good friend Gareth has really outdone himself here, setting up this piece of cyber real-estate for us to collectively stretch our legs in. Thanks Gareth.

I just want to make two quick points. To make the blog a nice interactive place rather than a one-way flow of information, we need to make extensive use of the comments. Thus if a particular post generates interest and discourse, that should take place in the comments to the post rather than as a series of separate individual posts. Try to keep each post to a specific topic, let the comments to the post roam where they may, to some extent.

Secondly, the blog is not like the mainling list. New content is not going to magically just appear in your Inbox. But instead of having to bookmark and check it manually each day, I recommend that you set up an account with a blog monitoring site called Bloglines. You use Bloglines to subscribe to the blog "feed". Then to watch all the blogs that you wish to subscribe to, like this one, you only need one bookmark (even better, make it one of your home tabs in Firefox), and you will automatically know if there is a new post. I think it is even possible to subscribe to individual comment feeds.

Let's make this thing work for all of us.

Steve Lacey

Welcome

This is it. The Namban Group Blog. The list is for short, sweet informative posts. This is a space where we can be more discursive, share more. I hope that all you need to know on how to post and comment is in the mail I sent to the list, if not let me know.

I hope this is useful for all of us. If not, we can lose it.

By the way. This is not mine. Anybody, everybody, is welcome to refine the design, add links and things--running-related links would be a good start.

Gareth